Miscellany

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    My name is Steve Bogner, a 40-something husband and father of two boys in Cincinnati, OH. Extremism - whether conservative or liberal or whatever - is something I try to avoid. The world isn't perfect, the truth is usually in the middle, and things are rarely as simple as they seem.


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    This is a moderate, Jesuit-flavored Catholic blog. I'll write about Catholicism, holiness and spirituality along with a bit of politics, social justice and Catholic mystics. I'm not an expert in any of these, but if you like reading about them, then this is a place to do that.


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June 17, 2009

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Good to have you back with us! I think if we "live it", and live it with "life" in it, and as truthful as we can be in it all, then we've done all we can do other than trusting Him with our kids as they go. I left my church after a 30-year relationship and two of my daughters yet attend it. I don't regret raising them in it, give thanks for where they are now, and visit on occasion. Through iut all, God remains faithful.....

Right on Steve! We're all "ONE Family" in Christ with our daily UPs and Downs because Christ said in so many words to love one another as I have loved you which seems very hard at times but we keep trying just the same.

Good Post Steve,

Interesting stuff, Steve. Funny - I was one of the kids who was not raised in any church and ended up choosing to say yes to Christ in the Catholic Church at the age of 13. I drifted out, into other Christian realms, for several years, and have been "back in" for a couple of years, along with my whole family. It will be interesting to see how my kids deal with being Catholic Christians in the years to come. I think you're definitely right about weaving it all together into the life of the family. Being Christian people has always been the core of our family and we've tried to allow that faith to "infect" everything we are. It seems to have worked fairly well so far. As you say, we're certainly not perfect, and we all know it. But it'll still be interesting to see how things pan out. In the mean time, we'll keep teaching through life and praying. Peace to you.

Thanks Steve, I really enjoy your blog. It has been a source of MUCH spiritual nourishment and food for thought so thank you.

As a young adult who grapples with these issues, I think the way forward has to be one grounded in prayer and community. Young adults are trying to find their way in the world, there are alot of conflicting messages out there. I have experienced Ignatian 'immersion' trips where the faith and justice come together in a very real way to be helpful in offering 'conversion' experiences where it becomes real and we see more readily the fullness of 'Salvation history' and how it is alive today. Praying with the gospels, resting with the Lord, and how that moves us to act, has to be part of what we do. The church, with traditions like Ignatian spirituality, as source of wisdom and deepening. I think we also need faith communities like Christian Life Community to spring up among the laity and sustain this sense of shared life together "in Christ".

The faith becomes "real" at the deepest core of our being, and we realise it's not so much what the church is saying, but that the Church is an instrument pointing to Jesus, like the icons that have Mary pointing to her son, the church points to Jesus, and we see Jesus in the Eucharist and in the Gospels saying "love your enemies" and we realise that is a statement that could have a whole lifetime of contemplating, of deepening, of entering into a new humility, as we contemplate this Christ, (the mystery is this: Christ within you! - St Paul) who we bring to the world not so much by what we do, but by who we are becoming, and what that then means for how we are doing things.

People believe people for their story and the way they are more than what they are being told. I think one of the great secrets of people of faith is "silence". In silence, we can choose to become aware of the presence of God, and so with faith in this presence, we can bear witness to that presence by the way we act, and that witness to the presence (and absence) and the sense that we are reverencing everything not consciously necessarily, but just in who we are becoming, we will be helpful for people to see the prophetic message of the Kingdom of God than anything we tell them.

Here are some interesting articles I've read recently, one on spiritual formation http://anamchara.com/formation/whatisformation/ and another by James Martin on becoming a saint by becoming who we are http://woodstock.georgetown.edu/resources/articles/Jim-Martin-How-to-Become-a-Saint.html and another about the Ignatian exercises becoming normative experiences for adult Catholics http://bcm.bc.edu/issues/winter_2009/c21_notes/born-again.html Blessings and prayers to you and your family Steve! I think of Julian of Norwich's "all will be well, and all manner of things will be well."

Hi Steve,

I've been away from blogging myself for awhile but it's nice to see some familiar favorites still up and running!

Our kids are making that transition from teen to adulthood (16 and 20) and my wife and I have struggled with the whole issue of Church and faith and the deep rooted desire to pass this great gift of faith that we have received, on to them both.

It's such an odd situation for us. We were both non-churched kids who came to faith together as adults. Our children were old enough to be a part of this conversion process and shared this new life in faith with us. We are now quite heartbroken that our son has moved away from the church and our daughter is walking a pretty thin line. It's easy to take it all personally, "Where did we fail God?" "What did I do wrong?" "Was it too much of this? Not enough of that?" Sometimes it seemed as though the self-flagellation would never end!

Then my priest and friend gave me a much needed (and extremely challenging, from an evagelization perspective) piece of advice. All we can do as disciples is to live the faith as honestly as we know how, and as our own brokenness will allow, and to show the face of Christ to others to the best of our ability. We must do this with the knowledge that this alone will never bring someone to faith. That's not our job and never was. No, he said, a person does not come to faith, whether adult or child, or that mysterious in-between creature we know as the adolescent because of anything we have done or not done. At the end of the day, faith is a result of a relationship that grows between an individual and Christ. The reality that found Andrew as merely the vehicle for bringing others to Jesus is just as true for parents.

He went on with a bit of a wry grin, not content to leave it at that, the fact of the matter is, when evagenlization is done properly and done, as was said, to the best of our broken abilities, but with a sincere heart nonetheless, we cannot be blamed for those who see Christ and are determined to walk another way...and at the same time, we cannot take the credit when faith finds it's home.

It was very relieving to hear those words as a parent (though the sadness and disappointment remain just a sharp), but also extremely humbling as a disciple, this idea that I really can't take any credit for anyone who does happen to come to faith because of something I've done or said, or the way that I have loved because in the end, it was never really about me at all.

Loved the post Steve!

Alas, other factors can intrude.

My first wife - who went off with a schismatic church and is now seeking "ordination" - and I shared custody. Every other weekend the girls were with me and went to Catholic Church. When they were with her, they went to the schismatic church.

They are now adults. One goes to the schismatic church occasionally. One does not go to church much, but is not happy with the schismatic church. I've managed to convince her to come to my church a few times when my contemporary group (Rock of Faith) is playing. The youngest began boycotting the schismatic church and continued going to church with me when she was here. But then she went off to college and deserted Christianity for Buddhism.

Given the mixed messages they got while growing yup, it's not surprising they've done some of the things they've done.

I pray for them often. I worry about them. It does hurt. I look back to see where I went wrong, how I could have encouraged them in the faith. But for now I must trust in God to bring them home.

This is a very interesting topic. I'm another who wasn't raised in the Church and then chose it for myself (by the grace of God) as an adult. I think I will most likely not try to coerce my children into being practicing Catholics at all, should the issue arise.

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