Room for each other

I've been wondering what to write about the pope's recent decision to allow unrestricted use of the Latin Tridentine Mass. Honestly, I've been very busy and haven't had all that much time to think about it, but today I had some time to catch-up on blogs and get an idea of what was being said about all this in the Catholic blog community. And I was saddened by much of what I read. If someone was to form their view of the Catholic church based on what they read in blogs, they would get a very disturbing and warped version of things. Back in the early church Tertullian wrote of Christians of his day: 'See how they love one another'. What would he say now if all he saw were Catholic blogs?

Is this unfettered availability of the Latin Mass going to make much of a difference in the Catholic church? I have no idea. If it draws some people closer to God then that's great; if it ends up dividing the church then that's bad. Either way it goes, it will be because we've decided to go there. Yes, it's because we've decided as a church to go one way or the other – to let something draw us, as a church, closer to God and each other, or drive us further apart.

It's pretty easy to blame the pope, neo-Catholics, liberals, Vatican 2, and whatever pet-peeve one has for the church's problems. It's ridiculously easy to do so via a blog, and from behind an anonymous or manufactured online identity. Likewise, it's easy to see a certain concept, movement, or tradition as the key to one's, or the church's, spiritual issues. Reality, and Catholicism, is more pluralistic than that. And the Catholic church is fuller, richer and more diverse than that.

There isn't one way to celebrate Mass, there are a variety of liturgical practices that we can and do draw on as needed. There isn't one type of music that is best for a liturgy, we have many types to choose from. We have hundreds of different orders of priests, nuns and religious – all for a reason and all serving the church in the way they are called to do. We can have a Mass that has long stretches of silence, or lots of chant, choir and organ music, or led by song-leader accompanied by piano. We have room for Carthusians and Jesuits, the Poor Clares and the Sisters of St Joseph of Peace. Diversity, acceptance, charity and understanding are not always very comfortable for us to practice; but it seems to me that's an example Jesus set for us to follow. 'Love one another' can be tough and humbling, but what other way than that will lead us towards God?

As I considered the pope's action and the online community's response to it, a few questions kept popping into my thoughts... Do we have room for each other? Do we trust the Holy Spirit to lead us and the church to fullness in Christ? What do my words and actions show the world about the church I call home?

Comments

[susan rose, csjp]

Excellent post and excellent questions.

Incidentally, the founder of the Sisters of St Joseph of Peace was herself at one point a Poor Clare! I love that you used those two examples :).

[+ Alan]

Steve - very good post man. I very much appreciate reading this. Not sure if you saw my take but I wrote a little. I think, as you said, it depends on where we allow it to take us. This can be a good thing. I think it's meant to be. But certainly it already is leaning, for some, in a sort of sectarian direction. Not good at all. And then there is some angry paranoia from the "other side" - whatever. I pray that the Church I am re-entering, with my family, is what you're describing here. I'm not naive, but I do pray this is more true than false. These words were a bit comforting for me today. Thanks and Pax vobiscum (oooooo, Latin!) :)

[Steve Bogner]

Thanks Susan; I didn't know your order had some roots in the Poor Clares, funny how those two came together in my post :)

Alan - I pray every day for the church you're re-entering. And I like your take on the motu proprio; let's hope & work that this does bring more unity than division.

[Ironic Catholic]

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being a voice of reason....

[Victor]

Steve, my wife, three of our grandchildren and I decided to come home for a day from our cottage because the weather has not been the greatest.

When we got up this morning it was raining and Our Lord still has not as yet stopped crying. My spiritual imaginary friends are trying to make me believe that this weather is do to the fact that I promised, me, myself and I that I would only be going to church on Sunday for the summer and that’s what I did today in a small town before we got home.

My subconscious tells me to stick to my words and not visit the hotel of fools until after the summer in order to show them who the boss really is. My subconscious also says that some of my friends think that they really are gods but as far as he’s concerned they are only forgiven sins who truly believe that they indeed are gods and that they are the ones who have performed the so called miracles that I have witnessed. I was led to believe that forgiven sins have been thinking this way since the beginning of Time and depending on who forgive, the spiritually strength varies.

For what it's worth, I witnessed another miracle just a few days ago and it happened to me as I was on my way to my fishing hole off a large rock just behind our cottage. It’s a great spot to fish and I always walk near a very dangerous area where two people already have drowned and why I tend to travel in that location before getting to my safe spot where I sometime fish, God only knows and we may as well ask Him why I've written so much of what I write on my blog. Anyway because of the weather we’ve been having lately, the rock was wet and this large kind of rock mountain as a circular form drop which the grips of my shoes usually hold me up so I can cross over to my spot but on this day I just started to slip. As I was slipping I thought of how silly I was to not have remembered that the rock was still wet and without too much of a panic I dropped on the rock in hope that some of my body might crip to the rock and as I fell into the water I asked My God if I would make it out or would I finally get to meet Him? In the small waves, I noticed that I had dropped my fishing rod so I quickly grabbed it with my right hand cause it was a gift from my wife for my birthday and if I lost that, she would probably kill me! (lol). Anyway I couldn’t climb up again and there was no human in site so I had to try and swim around. I did spot my cat Tiger watching me from the top of the hill slowly trying to swim and his eyes seem to kind of light up as he seem to wonder what I was doing in the water. To make a long story short about ten or so minutes while swimming with only my left hand free I made it safely although I must confess that just before I got out I thought that I would not make it and then it was easy going as if I was walking on water while still under water. Go Figure!

Steve, you must forgive me cause I must have gotten one of Jim’s Brainwaves and I only read a couple of his post so I better stop now and thank you for allowing me such a long comment. I’ll close by saying that I believe that we’ll all make it in our good old time as long as we hold strong to what our Inner Heart truly knows is right under the guidance of Our Good Lord combined of many Friends who will always find room for each of US in one of His so many world dimensions and/or within one of His Eternal Moments. I truly believe that every questions will someday be answered concerning The Church that Jesus Christ founded and everyone is welcome to join and just as Jesus welcomed them in the pass He welcomes everyone today. Some of my spiritual friends are telling me that I’m sticking my neck out by telling others what their so called angels have told them and that is that the end of the world really did start when Jesus said it was at hand and I have no right giving my opinion as to their fact. They say that they’ve been creating gods since before the time of the dinausaurs and it’s not fair because we’ve only been around for less than a century and Our so called Heavenly Father is giving us the same reward as long as we follow His rules for our safety only.

Ok I’ll really stop now but remember that we'll always have our free will and friends are a lot more generous in their own way than some might be lead to believe! His that good or bad? (lol)

God Bless All His Children

[James]

To replace here in my town our unremarkable low-key Sunday Mass (English) with a Tridentine and Latin endeavour/performance would finish our local church, even if our priest could cope with Latin - which he can't, though I suppose he could be taught like a parrot.

We're in a dying town, we have only 5 children under 16 in the church and the middle-aged parents are either non-prac or at work. Our average age must be around 70, and our Mass count is about 100. We have enough to contend with - we don't need any more. Yes, I know two of those 100 who would eagerly vote for a Tridentine Mass, but both are over 80 and one of them is housebound.

I would not continue as a choir member if we were asked to sing Gregorian as a regular happening. The current docs are disheartening in the extreme with their promise of an obsolete extra-ordinary rite and an ordinary rite re-phrased in peculiarly out of date English. Plus a slap in the face to our lovely Christian neighbours whose congregations are not "churches."

We are not as other men are - that's shameful.

[KiwiNomad06]

I have pretty much fallen completely off the edges of the Church now, but I take heart in your posting Steve. Your emphasis on needing what draws us closer to God had some impact on me. Love has to be the way ahead.

[Steve Bogner]

IC - Thanks for that.

Vic - Thanks for the story. Yes, free will and friends are wonderful gifts from God.

Hi James - Thankfully the Latin Mass is voluntary; and for parishes such as yours there may not be the resources to have it anyway. It's optional, and I'm glad it's that way. I didn't write about the other Vatican announcement regarding other churches, but my reaction is similar to yours.

Kiwi - Off the edges now!? I'm glad this posting was able to giv you something worth commenting about :)

[Jeff]

Good post as always Steve,

You said,

'Love one another' can be tough and humbling, but what other way than that will lead us towards God?

You are right about that of course, and as someone who is starting to earn himself a rep in blogdom as a notorious hothead, I've got to remind myself of that more often.

Just the same, we must realize that change occurs in the Church. The Holy spirit works through people. The Deposit of Faith is immutable, but the practice and face of the Church is not. In these debates between conservatives and liberals in the last 30 years or so, timidity does not get rewarded. Too often, the most strident voices do. The liberals have been getting their clocks cleaned routinely. The squeaky wheel often gets the grease.

In the responses from "both sides" over this, I actually find the progessive voice to be quite muted. What I am seeing much more of is chortling, gloating, and malicious glee on the part of traditionalists. That makes it look less likely to me that both sides are ever going to be worshipping together if they have a choice about it.... The only thing worse than a sore loser is a sore winner.

[crystal]

Great post, Steve.

I'm more upset by the document saying the other Christians aren't real churches ... the new/old Mass is at least optional, as you say. I haven't read very blog posts on these subjects, but I've seen some online journal articles - from horrified and hurt Protestant's at the TimesOnline, to the happy chortling Jeff mentions at The Catholic Herald.

[Wayne]

Hello Steve

You say "there isn't one way to celebrate."

I recently wrote a paper about the meeting at the well between Jesus and the Samaritan woman. I love how when she realizes and expresses that Jesus is a prophet, she then immediately brings the difference Jews and Samaritans preach about where to worship... (John 4: 19). Jesus says that worship should be filled with spirit and truth, an apparently we have been arguing about that every since.

Friday night I gathered with Episcopalians, one of whom told me that I/we had been put in our place by the pope.

Saturday night I gathered with Catholics one of whom brought up some issues he had with the Latin mass.

Personally I wonder how the small gathering I join with every Sunday would deal with a radical change in liturgy. I hope we can stay together.

[Steve Bogner]

Jeff - Thanks for adding your perspective here. I greatly admire & respect your views on this and most other things as well, finding myself in agreement with them most of the time. I agree that the more timid commentary often doesn't get rewarded; but while the daring commentary may be initially rewarding I think it might also serve to inflame the conflict.

Crystal - Thanks; I share your concern.

Wayne - Thanks for commenting. Yes, these might be challenging times for some of us. I firmly believe though, that the times are what we make of them; we have choices and can choose to build up the church as a community.

[Patrick]

"In my Father's house here are many rooms". I wonder how often we have heard that word and still bicker over who is in the right room. As a catholic Christian my emphasis is on what we as Christians share and builds us up to face each day and night with faith, hope and trust. When I see and hear us in-fighting I can picture our detractors laughting up their sleeves. I believe in God who is LOVE. God is able to cope with our diversity of worship, sure if you think about it GOD CREATED THIS DIVERSITY. "God is Love", everything else in our catholicism is our efforts to put words and actions to this essential truth. Let's not throw our beautiful baby out with the soiled bath water. I enjoy the challenges you pose for us/me in your blogs Steve. We need to make our faith our personal faith. If you know what I mean. Thank You.

[KiwiNomad06]

Yeah steve, I am pretty much off the edges and into the dung heap as far as church goes these days.... but dang it all, people like you say some inspiring stuff that stops me from completely closing it all off.....

[Steve Bogner]

Patrick - Thanks for the reminder about 'many rooms' and for the rest of your comment. 'God is love, and everything else is our efforts to put words and actions to this essential truth' - very well said!

Kiwi - I'm smiling, glad that you are finding some inspiring stuff here and elsewhere.

[joe]

I like that the TLM is voluntary. I am puzzled that some people are horrified by this.

A good litmus test is to look at blogospheric reactions and see which posts characterize other people negatively, and which posts merely expressed joy that room had been made for those partial to a certain liturgical form. The problem, as I see it, is that there are people who cannot stand there are others who now have the liberty to worship according to the liturgy which speaks to their hearts. Stop and ponder that. Think about all those people who say (essentially) "If my pastor caves to the Rad Trads, I'm GONE." or "Those Novus Ordo types are consorting schismatic and heretic Protestants, leaving us with an invalid liturgy."

To say there is room for each other implies that we, INDIVIDUALLY, must make the room for each other. Think about it. If you think there is room for everyone, then you have to make room. (You will be measured with the measure you use, etc.) Just because someone is on the opposite side of a given debate doesn't automatically make them The Enemy. To make room for each other is going to require the most atrophied Christian muscles: Compassion, mercy and understanding.

Lastly, as re. the "other Churches" thing. It seems to me -- and I have not read either the English translation (likely very bad, if history is any guide) nor the "official Latin" so my thoughts are based on 2nd and 3rd hand information; If I err in assumptions, forgive me -- the document appears somewhat clumsily-worded. I know what it's trying to say. The word "Church" has a specific definition in the eyes of the Vatican (implying a community of faith established by either an Apostle or by someone with Apostolic authority) and the Orthodox Churches have it (ahving been founded thus) and the Protestants don't. This is why the Vatican always speaks of these as "other Christian confessions" rather than "other Christian churches". But the way it came out it sounds as if the Church is saying "these others aren't really Christian."

Which is something I seriously doubt, even if they express themselves clumsily.

Just my thoughts,

-J.

[Steve Bogner]

Joe, yes we each have to make room, it's a responsibility we all have. Good point. I do think, though, that there are some people who are really uncomfortable that this change is a sign of more things to come, a slow unraveling of V2 for example. As with so many change efforts, communication and how we communicate is very important.

[joe]

Steve,

Two things:

1- Like in the saying "Peace begins with," so does room.
2- I grant you that people are "really uncomfortable that this change is a sign of more things to come" but we must also equally grant that other people are really uncomfortable with liberties and abuses taken in the name of V2.

Part of the problem is that most people have between no idea and a dim notion what the documents of V2 actually stated. My guess -- and it's just that -- is that we are not going to return to the day before V2, but rather, insofar as is possible look back and see what was lost in the postconciliar shuffle that was precious and sacred and restore it. My concern is that people on the further reaches of each side of the argument tend to see the other guys automatically with suspicion.

If you look around, without much effort, you can spot dozens of people utterly unwilling to even attempt to see things from the other guy's point of view.

This is wildly common in all organizations with a history. There is expansion that leads to consolidation which leads to expansion. A pendulum swings. We inhale and exhale. We engage with the world and we look inward. It makes no more sense to rail against this (not that you are!) than to rail against gravity because you tripped and fell.

As you very rightly say, communication and how we communicate is vital. (Part of the problem from our little corner is that English is the red-headed stepchild in the Vatican's translation department. So, things that strike us as damnably odd in English are perfectly innocuous in other languages.) My concern is the rush to view someone else's viewpoint in the least charitable manner possible.

So.

If someone comes and tells me that V2 is heresy, my impulse is to dismiss it as the ravings of a crank. But he might have a point. His conclusions might differ (even spectacularly) from mine, but he may have a point. He might arrive at different solutions than I do, but that doesn't mean he may not raise valid issues. To dismiss something out of hand merely because I disagree is the anithesis of making room.

St. Paul wrote very clearly: (I Thess 5:21, for those of you scoring at home)"Test everything. Hold on to the good."

For me, "everything" means just that. Latin, vernacular, Tridentine, Novus Ordo, bongos, organ, silk and macrame', Trent and Vatican II. Nothing is above being tested. Even the stuff I like.

Scooting over to make room for the tambourine player, ;-)

-J.

[Fran aka Redondowriter]

I've admittedly been following all of the Pope's news via NCR, and I know that is only one point of view. Being one of the Catholics that left a few years back, I must admit that it looks like the critics who are calling all the latest happenings as the restoration. In the 1960s, the window was thrown open to get fresh air and frankly, it feels like the window has been closed tight and the air is getting stale.

The L.A. archdiocese's $660 million abuse settlement on Monday was so startling. I've been wanting to write about this at Sacred Ordinary, but at the moment I'm so angry about the years of cover-up, that it wouldn't be wise for me to write.

Thanks for your point of view.

[clarissa]

Before there was Latin...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Tridentine_Mass

God is so good. This blog and its contributors speak this in volumes. I appreciate it so.

May our hearts, souls & minds turn to our triune God fully trusting in his love, mercy, understanding & forgiveness.

That we may all be one in Christ.

Peace be with you,
clarissa

[Solanus]

"I'm more upset by the document saying the other Christians aren't real churches ... the new/old Mass is at least optional, as you say."

Why as a Catholic, would this be upsetting? Pope Benedict was simply reaffirming what the Church has always taught.

[jim]

Steve,

Probably should have dropped an e-mail, but I returned from our breakfast this morning, sat down and re-read this post, then worked (enjoyed) my way through all the comments. Let me repeat, therefore, what I said this morning: You do a wonderful ministry with this blog; and add that reading the words of those who faithfully follow you here but gives me reinforcement of the Holy Ghost being more than "tongues" coming forth in an "awesome" service. Who said Pentecost and Catholicism can't walk together in Him?.......

[Steve Bogner]

Joe - Thanks for adding more of your perspective. I agree that I don't think we're going to end up unwinding all the V2 changes. Just as the pendulum may have swung too far one way just after V2, I'd like to see it not swing as far the other way (pre-V2) in the coming future.

Hi Fran - Thanks for dropping by! Maybe when one window closes we can open another? Change is, hopefully, always going to be a part of the story of any church. And change certainly can be unsettling.

Clarissa - I'm glad you find something worthwhile in this blog; so much of the value comes from all the people who contribute to it via the comments. Thanks for the link! I didn't have time to read it in a lot of detail, but it's interesting to see that the pre-Latin Mass had a longer lifespan than the Latin Mass.

Hi Solanus - Often the way things are said are just as important as what is literally said.

Jim - Thanks for breakfast and conversation this morning; I enjoyed it as always. Yes, we can all walk together in Christ. He's not going to make us do it, but we sure can choose to do so - and I think that is the wiser decision.

[crystal]

Solanus,

I think it was my comment that you asked about. You ask why as a Catholic I should be upset about the document that says Protestant churches are not true Churches. Because I'm not just a Cathoilc, I'm a Christian, and so are Protestants. Co-incidently, I just posted something about this, with (the Anglican) NT Wright's view.

[joe]

Crystal,

If -- note that "if" -- the definition of "church" is a group of believers founded by an Apostle (or by someone with explicit Apostolic authority), with Apostolic succession and a "Real Presence" Eucharist, then Protestant faiths don't qualify. This is why the various Orthodox churches are defined as such.

This is emphatically not to say that Protestants are not Christian, nor that they are consigned to eternal damnation or any such thing. Dr. Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary clearly understood what the CDF document meant and was obviously not offended by the Church reiterating what it has been saying for ages.

Now, what the definition of church ought to be is something that can be put on the table for discussion.

Steve,

In every age, things will happen which will make good people of the faith unhappy. Not everyone who was upset by the XYZ change of 1970something was some knuckle-dragging troglodyte, just like those upset by the ABC change of 2010something are not all tye-dyed neopagans. We have to accept some things with faith, and our faith can be accurately assessed by how well we accept things happening with which we're not truly happy. (NO, I'm not talking about evil stuff, or scandal...I mean procedural things.)

The hard thing to figure out is how open to have the window...open enough so that fresh air gets in, but not so open that essentials of the faith go flying out. So I go back to the question I most often ask: "Is or is not the Holy Spirit in charge of His Church?"

-J.