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« The Desire for Education | Main | Bringing in the outsiders »

July 17, 2005

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» Evolution again from Catholicism
On his blogsite, Steve Bogner makes some intelligent comments on the current Creation vs Evolution debate sparked off by recent comments from [Read More]

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Steve,

Excellent post.

My pastor in university used to say, "All truth is God's truth." I think there's real wisdom in that.

Part of the problem is the black and white, either/or attitude that imforms the debate. Yes, there are problems with both theories, that doesn't mean that there isn't truth lying within each.

Some may say that such an attitude is wishy washy. But the Genesis story is not a scientific account, and evolution doesn't proclaim the existence of a living God. That's why we keep searching for more knowledge, and, dare I say, truth.

kgp

Steve,

The passion of the debate concerning evolution and faith arises from the question “What is man..?” which the psalmist asks in Psalm 8. If man is indeed a product of an evolutionary process we must ask ourselves how sin and evil came into the world. If evolution is true, or true insofar as man having evolved from lower life forms, then scripture must be false. If the biblical account of Adam and Eve and the Garden is myth, then original sin is also myth. The Christian doctrine of Christ being the second Adam expounded by Paul in the fifth chapter of Romans would then be fallacious, since it would rest on the false pretence of sin and death having entered the world through the disobedience of the first Adam.

I think the problem rests in the effort to force a natural explanation for events which are at root supernatural.

Kevin - that search for truth may never end, either.

Joe - Thanks for commenting. I don't understand your argument though. Maybe if I look at certain Biblical passages in a literal way, then it makes sense; but I don't see them that way.

Couldn't it be possible that somewhere along the evolutionary path, humanity deliberately turned from God towards sin? The act of turning away from God seems to me to be the central point, not the physical setting it took place in (i.e. two humans in the Garden of Eden). If not, then which parts of the Bible do we take literally, and which are metaphors, symbols, etc? And when we can prove certain things contrary to their Biblical account (the blue dome of the sky is not a body of water), are we to suspend our God-given intellect and assent to what we know to be false?

In my mind, I keep coming back to what Kevin described as the search for truth - physically and intellectually, as well as Truth, in a divine sense of the word. My approach thus far is to accept the Bible as religious truth, divine revelation about God expressed via the people and the times they were in; but not always as physical or historical truth.

"This just feels like political manipulation of the hierarchy to advance the cause of intelligent design, and I had hoped that a cardinal, in particular, would be more astute. I suppose the whole thing with Galileo a few centuries ago is distant enough to be forgotten at times. Faith and science have a partnership - one explains who, and the other explains how. They are not incompatible, but complementary."


You've got to be kidding! ---SH

Thanks for the thoughtful post, Steve. I appreciate your clear words and lack of theological jargon.
I too have no problem with evolution. Perhaps the reason for this is the Catholic tradition which is more sacramentally centered than Biblically centered and our rejection of Scripture alone as the source of guidance in our lives.
I haven't taken any life sciences in college, but I remember way back in the 50's when I was in Cathollic high school, we were taught the theory of evolution in biology class as completely reasonable and compatible with Catholicism.

Then, good friends, you won't like this page:

http://www.tcrnews2.com/darwin.html

A last hasty thought on this. I agree evolution per se is not a matter of dogma, even if it is a faith theory, since the "evidence" is ambiguous and disputed by bona fide scientists.

We believe creation is ultimately a mystery that no scientist (or creationist!) will ever "explain," beyond what God has seen fit to reveal.

But if specifically Darwinian evolution (which is what concerned the Cardinal) is fact--- which, based on scripture, is, I think, negatively ruled out--- then death is natural, not the result of Original Sin, not an intrusion into the universe, and in the end there is no essential difference between a Jeffrey Dahmer and a Mother Teresa--- ---for both are a manifestations of one indifferent "nature" / "natural selection" according to Darwin --- except as a fideism imposes God on it.

Here's a good website for further considerations
---SH

Hi Stephen - Well... no, I wasn't kidding. I've skimmed the review that you linked to - thanks; maybe later today I can get to the origins.org site. I suppose we can agree that creation is ultimately a mystery, as you point out. However we all got here, it was from God, according to God's will and plan.

Mary - You are very welcome. Anyway, I don't know enough theology to actually use theological jargon.

what i don't like about the intelligent design theory is that it seems to suggest that God's existence can be proven. wasn't it st. augustine who said, "if you think you understand, it isn't God"? if we could prove that the universe was created by God, then belief wouldn't be a choice, so there would be nothing more holy in that than if i said "i believe! i BELIEVE that i'm wearing a skirt! praise my skirt!" that's my theory, anyhow.

Steve,

I used to strongly believe in the literal translation of much of the bible. Now, I'm not so certain all of it is to be translated literally. I admire you for your ability to believe in evolutionary creation.

I think some of the problem is that humans need rationalization. To describe our creation through evolution begs too many questions that can't be answered, the why how and when as you say. Some don't have the FAITH to be able to question their beliefs. Which, of course are two separate entities.

Good post.

Steve Bogner wrote:

"I suppose we can agree that creation is ultimately a mystery... However we all got here, it was from God, according to God's will and plan."

Amen, Steve.

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